This episode features an interview with Niklas Bergentoft, Principal at Deloitte & Touche LLP. Niklas has been at Deloitte for 15 years, and currently leads the company’s treasury practice in the US. His multifaceted role involves setting strategy and building capabilities for business growth, shaping the firm’s methodologies, relationship building, and client delivery. On this episode, Niklas discusses how he helped his clients navigate the challenges of the pandemic and how 2020 emphasized a greater focus on controlling all aspects of liquidity. He also shares his thoughts on the expansion and evolution of the treasurer’s role, automation and digitization within the CFOs office, and he offers some poignant managerial advice.
This episode features an interview with Niklas Bergentoft, Principal at Deloitte & Touche LLP.
Niklas has been at Deloitte & Touche LLP for 15 years, and currently leads the company’s treasury practice in the US. His multifaceted role involves setting strategy and building capabilities for business growth, shaping the firm’s methodologies, relationship building, and client delivery.
On this episode, Niklas discusses how he helped his clients navigate the challenges of the pandemic and how 2020 emphasized a greater focus on controlling all aspects of liquidity. He also shares his thoughts on the expansion and evolution of the treasurer’s role, automation and digitization within the CFOs office, and he offers some poignant managerial advice.
Quotes
“There are a few things that I saw some of my clients do very efficiently and effectively [to navigate the pandemic]…A lot of the organizations that I was around had a much greater focus on controlling all aspects of liquidity. That was cash at hand, becoming way more dynamic in forecasting, and being able to support various business scenarios around forecasting the outlook for liquidity.”
“We’ve seen both CFOs’ and treasurers’ roles have evolved quite a bit over the past five years, but in this past year, we've seen the role of the treasurer evolve…And we're seeing treasurers get involved in broader areas of liquidity… and really becoming more of a change agent in finance, to control liquidity and drive value through treasury.”
“Quite a few of my clients…as part of one of their rotations on their way to round out their experiences before they become a CFO, is actually moving through the treasury function. And we're seeing that more and more. I think part of that is because treasury has been elevated again, and there's a lot of recognition that it requires a highly specialized skill set and a very important skill set in order to help sort of steward the finance function.”
“The role of the treasurer as a leader, I think, is to help get those technology elements in place, get the right skill set for tomorrow in place within the organization, and then really, reinvent what work means for treasury in the future.”
“If [an ERP-type system for liquidity] existed I think it would be extremely powerful…I think there is a lot of opportunity to really bring the liquidity ecosystem together…It’s not just being able to see the cash but being way more dynamic and integrated in how liquidity is being viewed going forward. How does FP&A or financial planning and treasury come together for one integrated view of liquidity that's needed. It's one integrated story around what's important.”
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[00:00:00] Tom: [00:00:00] Welcome to the invisible vault. I'm your host, Tom Butta, CMO of Kyriba. And today we're joined by a very special guest Niklas Bergentoft. Hello, Niklas, how are you
[00:00:11] Niklas: [00:00:11] today? I'm doing good, Tom. Thanks
[00:00:14] Tom: [00:00:14] for having me. Okay. We're going to start out with some, uh, sort of easy questions if that's, if that's good with you.
[00:00:21] Yeah. And this one is a little bit of a flashback. It seems like you've been in finance for a long time. What was your first job in
[00:00:27] Niklas: [00:00:27] finance? That is a bit of a flashback actually, but I started off my career as a controller for a startup in London. So for me, he found that there was a great role too, to get a variety of experiences at our opportunity, pretty much to do everything and finance from setting up legal entity structures to franchise in concepts.
[00:00:47] I think even the payroll, billing, collections and everything all the way through the financial close at the end, the startup space, I took some time off and that was brought back by the owners to help sell the company. So [00:01:00] I got some experience there as well, too. Um, Go through the due diligence process of selling investments.
[00:01:06] So overall looking back at it, I think it was pretty good. Start to my career and a lot of very practical experiences on my end. Well,
[00:01:14] Tom: [00:01:14] yeah, you had sounds like you had full exposure to the entire, you know, financials of a, of an organization and then to B be a participant in the M and a activity. That's that's pretty good.
[00:01:27] First start. That was a lot of fun. And so let's cut to today. You know, what's the scope of your current role? So
[00:01:34] Niklas: [00:01:34] my role today is that I'm leading the treasury practice for Deloitte in the us. And if you're not that familiar with how we're structured and consulting a role like that really involves anything from, uh, setting our strategy for business growth, spending a lot of time building the capabilities.
[00:01:51] So that to us, anything that includes hiring training, getting the right people into the right roles. [00:02:00] Shaping where we focus, how we deliver in terms of methodologies. It's a lot of my time today is spent on relationship building and sales, but I also do a fair amount of client delivery. So that's pretty much what my role entails.
[00:02:15] And, um, you know, a lot of focus is obviously on helping scale the firm and getting new leaders developed. Right.
[00:02:23] Tom: [00:02:23] And all of this of course is in service of your clients. So if you were to characterize maybe the top two or three problems that you guys are solving for CFOs and treasurers, what would they be?
[00:02:37] Niklas: [00:02:37] I would say it depends on the asset and the situation of our clients. If I'm looking at my career today, but most of the calls from clients that have transformed treasury and payments functions, I've also had the opportunity to lead a lot of large scale technology implementations for my clients over the years.
[00:02:55] Tom: [00:02:55] In terms of volume, you know, how many implementations have you done? Is it, [00:03:00] is it in the thousands or hundreds?
[00:03:02] Niklas: [00:03:02] I don't know. It's not in the thousands for you really testing my memory and probably my math skills as well, which, uh, which my, my wife probably wouldn't wouldn't compliment too much, but I don't think I recall the exact number of transformations and implementations I've done over the years.
[00:03:19] Um, but, uh, It's safe to say that it's North of 50, some of the larger programs I've run and touch hundreds of people across various areas of finance, various geographies around the world. Um, the larger global, global transformations. They tend to run for several years and it's common that they run for two to three years overall.
[00:03:45] Whereas I think, you know, some of the smaller ones run for months right now, quick heads go in, get some benefits delivered. Um, I would say that probably on the short runs in the three to four months range.
[00:03:58] Tom: [00:03:58] Wow. That's, that's quite a range. You [00:04:00] must have accumulated a lot of experience from all that. Okay.
[00:04:03] So now we're going to get into, uh, our segment, which we call cash crossroads. I'd like to just ask you a few questions here. So the obvious question I think is how has 2020 brought about changes in what your customers are asking for now,
[00:04:18] Niklas: [00:04:18] first off, it's been a difficult year for many of us and likewise for our clients, whether it's from a business perspective or on the personal front.
[00:04:26] Right. So I think it's appropriate to, to recognize that. In terms of the business impact, Tom, I think it really depends on the vantage point that you're coming from and looking at it. So from what I've seen over this past year, year plus is that you can probably group organizations into four categories overall, and each of them were impacted differently.
[00:04:54] Right. We have organizations that were impacted hard during the pandemic and where [00:05:00] the outlook likely will change as well in the long-term not just financially, but also how certain industries will operate going forward. Then we have organizations that are impacted temporarily, but are likely to recover.
[00:05:13] Although they have Rica recovered and bounced back. And then you have some organizations that really came up benefiting. From the pandemic as well, and will likely continue to, to benefit long-term as a result of changes in consumer behavior or customer behavior. And lastly, we have organizations that benefited temporary or temporarily as we went into the pandemics or certain periods of lockdown, but some of those organizations are likely to continue to operate like they have historically or more of a status quo.
[00:05:48] As you look at the longer term impact.
[00:05:51] Tom: [00:05:51] What do you think the companies who were most successful in weathering the storm, um, did as a way to, you know, to weather that storm. [00:06:00] There's a
[00:06:00] Niklas: [00:06:00] few things that I saw. Some white lines do very efficiently and effectively. And I think this is irrespective of. Which category of organized, which category, you know, these organizations fell into whether they were benefiting or whether they were more significant.
[00:06:16] That impacted a lot of the organizations that I were around, had a much greater focus on controlling all aspects of liquidity. And so that was, you know, cash at hand becoming way more dynamic and forecasting. As to being able to support various business scenarios around forecasting, the outlook for liquidity working capital became focused for pretty much every organization and how to quickly being able to pull different working capital levers.
[00:06:50] We also have a big focus on controlling the cash outflow or payments. So for organizations that were impacted. Negatively by the [00:07:00] pandemic for them. It was really a matter of controlling liquidity for the purpose of surviving and being able to fund the organization and for the benefactors. Oh, the pandemic.
[00:07:13] I think that defocus in many cases became how to make the most use out of cash and take advantage of either acquiring lower, lower priced assets or funding growth on a more accelerated basis. But the last couple of things that we saw during the pandemic was, um, we saw, especially in certain sectors, a big focus on cost takeouts.
[00:07:38] How'd that really, um, played out in many cases that were a lot of shifts of core activities into either managed service capabilities or outsource functions. So for, for, you know, those organization was a much, uh, you know, it was a big focus on becoming more flexible and agile from a talent perspective.
[00:07:57] So as we may. Well, [00:08:00] hopefully, hopefully we won't, but we may end up in a similar situation. Again, these organization can flex up and down as needed.
[00:08:07] Tom: [00:08:07] Interesting. So one of the questions that comes to mind for me is the notion of automation. I mean, you talked about. Controlling payments. You talked about forecasting, you talked about working capital, you talked about becoming more agile.
[00:08:22] It seems that automation or digitization would seem to be important in enabling those activities. Would you say that that Nicholas, would you say that's true?
[00:08:33] Niklas: [00:08:33] Yeah, it's definitely true. And you actually saw that with some, um, organizations as well during this past year, the many actually accelerated funding and becoming more digitized and a part of that was an, uh, helping navigate.
[00:08:48] In a working on a more remote basis. I many organizations, instead of sort of in, in offices, working together as we've navigated this past year, a lot of us have gotten [00:09:00] used to working in new ways and working remote, uh, and law that drove acceleration and digital capabilities. Not just like we're talking today virtually, but, but also from an a how.
[00:09:12] Work is being done. So that happened. And while we probably just so a bit of a slow down in the first quarter as we went into the pandemic and in many other States were in lockdown mode for a period of time coming out of that initial lockdown, many, uh, organizations that, uh, these we worked with, uh, over this past year, ended up continuing to fund.
[00:09:38] Investments in technology and digital capabilities, especially in treasury, like we, we saw a lot of, uh, demand pick up. And, uh, from, from our perspective, right? Whether there were organizations going out and asking the banks so they could support, provide different solutions, they came to us and to us, how we could help, or [00:10:00] I'm sure that, you know, some of them came to you as well and asked, you know, how can, how can Careba help, uh, help support what was important?
[00:10:06] And all of that really came back to liquidity.
[00:10:08] Tom: [00:10:08] So if you were to sort of given your perspective, if you were to grade the inning, that treasury and finances today, in terms of being digitized, Would you say that there now, you know, in the early innings or in the later innings, you know, they're relatively new just getting started or are they more advanced?
[00:10:27] I know that's a general question, but
[00:10:29] Niklas: [00:10:29] yeah. Um, I think, um, it's, uh, it, it varies. I bet, depending on, uh, where, where organizations are, but in general, I think treasury functions and part of finance haven't been invested in as much as other functions that sort of core to the business, uh, that an organization is operating in.
[00:10:55] But we have seen organizations [00:11:00] evolve in a better finance functions, quite a bit over the past. That was a past few years. But especially during this past year as well, Do you
[00:11:09] Tom: [00:11:09] typically work with CFOs or treasurers or both
[00:11:13] Niklas: [00:11:13] more often treasurers because I tend to serve more of the, um, the fortune 100 fortune 200 type programs or organizations.
[00:11:22] And most of what I support our clients with tends to be under the treasurer's purview, but I've worked directly with, with some CFOs as well over the years.
[00:11:33] Tom: [00:11:33] And given that the focus on liquidity that you talked about has that, has that changed the role in your opinion of the treasurer? Yeah,
[00:11:42] Niklas: [00:11:42] I think it's evolved a bit.
[00:11:45] Maybe
[00:11:46] Tom: [00:11:46] I'll just give you my, my going in perspective. So yeah, I've heard this from quite a few people, so maybe there's some truth to it. And that is treasury historically has seemed to have been a very, um, I dunno, protected and isolated [00:12:00] function relative to. The rest of the, the office of the CFO and, uh, you know, as a result of the pandemic, as a result of all this uncertainty, as a result of the focus on liquidity, as you point out has that actually now exposed in a good way, the power that, that treasurer has.
[00:12:20] Niklas: [00:12:20] I do think it has evolved a lot on there. Just a greater. Recognition of the importance of the treasurer, right? So something in about liquidity or cash and liquidity overall, Tom, and I'm really thinking about how an organization is both effective and efficient, right? And that's sort of where many organizations historically have focused their cash focus.
[00:12:54] But as we've navigated through this past year specifically, [00:13:00] I believe you have to tie the full ecosystem of liquidity together. I'd so first from being able to see your cash real time in a predicting the liquidity outlook, controlling cash outflows in payments, and then have various sources of funding, whether you need to raise funds or various sources of placing excess cash.
[00:13:23] Right. So some, some thinking about how the treasurer's role may have shifted and changed. I mean, I think that we've seen both CFOs and treasurers. And that roles have evolved quite a bit over the past, probably five years. But in this past year, we've seen the role of the treasurer evolve into areas of working capital.
[00:13:52] Otherwise working capital has traditionally been part of the treasurer's roles and responsibilities and in many [00:14:00] organization, It's also moved or expanded further into payments. As you know, the whole payments landscape is being transformed, looking at alternative payment rails and how it may fit into a strategy for the organization as a whole.
[00:14:19] And that's being emphasized more in certain industries than others. And we're seeing treasurers as well, get involved in broader areas. Of, um, of liquidity. So let's just start looking at what's the impact payable, what impacts receivables and getting involved in shared service initiatives and really being more of a change agent in finance to control liquidity and drive value through, through treasury.
[00:14:48] So we've seen a lot of that.
[00:14:50] Tom: [00:14:50] So do you think we'll see, uh, some treasures become CFOs? Is that typically a path, right?
[00:14:56] Niklas: [00:14:56] We will. And I think we have, right. If you're looking at, yeah, [00:15:00] maybe the traditional path to a CFO has not as often been through the treasury function, but what I've seen over the past, I would say, you know, quite a few years now.
[00:15:10] So I've spent quite a bit of time in my role at home, helping executives transition into their new roles. So we, we have something, uh, at the Laureate that we refer to as our executive transition labs and well, that is really all about as to help new executives or executives in new roles, really think through their plans, their priorities.
[00:15:33] It's really, you know, start having an impact in the first three to six, three to six months of being in the role. What we've seen pride with. You know, CFOs that have taken through this program, some treasures that were taken through this program, that the path to CFO may not be just going from having had various rotations in finance controllership through let's say a chief accounting function to financial [00:16:00] planning, but also now having been a treasurer for a period of time, quite a few of my clients have gone through this program have been very talented finance leaders.
[00:16:10] That as part of one of their rotations on their way to round out their experiences before they become a CFO is actually moving through the treasury function. And we're seeing that more and more. I think part of that is because treasury has been elevated again, and there's a lot of recognition and that it requires a highly specialized skill sets and today a very important skill set as well in order to help sort of steward the
[00:16:38] Tom: [00:16:38] finance function.
[00:16:39] If we were to get into our next segment, which is called report from the future, um, you're talking about this, this evolution of the treasurer. What, what were the treasurer of the future?
[00:16:48] Niklas: [00:16:48] Looking like the treasurer of the future? I would say an a. You know, a couple of things. I would probably think about this, Tom, from the perspective of the [00:17:00] technical domain expertise, I would think about it from a leadership perspective as well.
[00:17:05] And then I would think about it from the type of organization that the treasurer builds. So some thinking about how the role will continue to evolve into, into various technical areas. I do think it's gonna continue to expand into the areas we just talked about. And whether that's in a cash and it's not just going to be in a cash funding into company banking in a investments.
[00:17:31] So those traditional functions, but also treasurer is really assuming full responsibility over working capital or payments. And as. Digital assets and crypto is taking a stronger foot tall, probably had a leadership role around that as well, you know, possibly getting further involved and how the organization extends credits and how it's actually is collecting cash as well.
[00:17:56] Maybe not as an operator, but at least as a [00:18:00] steward and leader to drive where the organization, how the organization is to perform from a leadership perspective. I believe we may see treasures continue to evolve as a mailers is really about enabling change and driving in a strategy overall around banking, risk, liquidity payments, and frankly, for whatever is next.
[00:18:27] And if we look back just let's say three to five years ago, there were many. Capabilities or technologies that we had not yet heard. All of that is mainstream today in most organizations have implemented today. Right. But really being a leader to drive and enable that change. I also think an important aspect of, of being a word tomorrow is that you need to.
[00:18:57] Continue to evolve, work [00:19:00] and talent, and we've already seen a big increase and focus on bringing in more tech savvy and digital skills and to treasury organizations as an augment augmenting that traditionals or the technical knowledge or, or treasury knowledge. And as we're looking at in what those organizations been able to achieve today, by having, you know, more tech savvy skills than had the right technologies in place, you can see how the treasury function of tomorrow is going, gonna be way more automated.
[00:19:38] That data is going to be available more at the fingertips and having the right analytical tools available. It's going to allow the treasury function to make decisions faster. And as you're overlaying the use of AI or machine learning technologies on top of this data set [00:20:00] on top of these analytical solutions, the sessions are gradually going to get more.
[00:20:05] Automated or may, may be made more automated and the interaction with core systems such as, you know, treasury management technologies or trading platforms, I believe you'll see the much of the interaction that we have as people today where those platforms are largely going to get automated. As well, and with the use of not just AI, but other interactive tools, such as chatbots and the lights will get smarter automation solutions.
[00:20:39] So the role of the treasurer as a leader of being used to help get those sort of technology elements in place gets the right. Skill set for tomorrow in place within the organization. And then really, really in a band would work means for treasury in the [00:21:00] future.
[00:21:00] Tom: [00:21:00] It sounds like fascinating job actually, because it encompasses so many things.
[00:21:05] You talked about being technology savvy, you talked about being data savvy, understanding and trusting the systems to automate what you need to do and potentially to predict what you should do next. The idea of being able to forecast where you're the quiddity is so that you have confidence in being able to grow an organization, or at least support the growth of an organization, which I think people are going to start wanting to do more and more of as they come out of as they come out of this conservative, you know, year and a half or so that we've been in.
[00:21:37] Do, do you see that? Do you, do you, do you send some hunger for growth initiatives now, or at least a readiness to go there? Or desire to go?
[00:21:48] Niklas: [00:21:48] Yeah, I do think so. Um, the, the Stel, uh, some organization I've worked with, uh, you know, I've been in the industry have been impacted the most and are still [00:22:00] in a recovering and nothing, you know, Some of those types of investments that are on the back burner in those organizations.
[00:22:06] But yeah, there is more hunger not just to come out and recover, but really to come out and thrive with many, many organizations, especially around in the core business that that organizations are in. But as some of my clients have gotten pulled in to help support that, too. Right. Where you start thinking about an a, some of my clients are going big.
[00:22:31] International international expansion and then the treasurer's role in helping figure out, you know, how that international expansion is going to happen. And we receive and all that happening today. There's a big focus as well. And some sectors of the industry to, you know, either go public or we'll take this background and all of that.
[00:22:49] And the treasurer has a baby important role to play there as well. And not just help establish the right type of capabilities, but really. Get the funding, right. Get the right [00:23:00] risk management structure in place. And so on before that happens.
[00:23:03] Tom: [00:23:03] Well, that's good to hear or certainly say the market's anticipating some of that, right?
[00:23:09] Niklas: [00:23:09] Yeah, for sure.
[00:23:10] Tom: [00:23:10] Yeah. There always seem to be ahead of, uh, of reality. So in thinking about the need to integrate across all of these ways to really drive and optimize the liquidity. Do you see the potential for an, an integrated system or platform? Almost like an ERP for liquidity. If that
[00:23:31] Niklas: [00:23:31] existed? I think it would be extremely powerful overall.
[00:23:35] Right? Cause I'm looking at. How in the technologies have evolved. We talked a little bit about that, right, Thomas. I mean, there's a lot of technologies that are available today that weren't available just a few years ago. And the commonplace today, you draw the contrast of what those technologies are able to do with, uh, you know, ERP technologies.
[00:23:57] And in some cases, historical [00:24:00] treasure management technologies have been able to do as well. I think there is a lot of opportunity here to really bring. Liquidity ecosystem together. That's sort of thinking about that, right? It's not just to being able to, they can comment that on that, on that before, not just being able to see the cash, but being way more.
[00:24:19] Dynamic and integrated and how liquidity is being used going forward. Right. So you can think about how does SDNA or financial planning and treasury come together for one integrated view of liquidity that's needed. It's one integrated story around what's important. And, uh, as, as the organization is communicating to the street about not just the results, but their targets and goals around free cash flow, uh, around how capital is going to get allocated in order to drive growth for the organization, ultimately how that, how that generate shareholder value so that [00:25:00] that's going to continue to be important as you have that, that data.
[00:25:04] Being able to look at what levers you have, right. To increase liquidity when, when you need to increase liquidity, whether it's through funding on the treasury side or reducing working capital needs in a more broadly across finance and then working, you know, the working capital leverage to optimize cashflow on you're looking at what's the value of that.
[00:25:27] If you have that in one place and you can look at. Than how you truly transform the last piece of that, at least in our playbook is sort of around play is around payments. And how you get, you know, more real time, how you get to lower cost of payments processing, how you use alternative payment rails to enhance the customer experience as well, especially in certain businesses where you may be dealing more with consumers and how all of [00:26:00] this is sort of getting integrated and control.
[00:26:03] I mean that as, um, probably what's ideal for, you know, to support a treasury function.
[00:26:10] Tom: [00:26:10] Do you think as a result of that possibility of having that one unified system, looking at the creditor, wherever it flows, leveraging the open API. So everything's integrated and you have full. Full access to data, all the data you need, you have a BI and AI capabilities within it.
[00:26:33] Then do you actually see a function being created much like the chief revenue officer or chief experience officer or something like a chief liquidity officer? Is that, is that a possibility or is this an, it was just, just the evolution of say the treasurer's job. My
[00:26:50] Niklas: [00:26:50] point of view is probably made maybe the ladder.
[00:26:52] Uh, it's an interesting concept though, if there was a chief liquidity officer in my mind, I think that ought to be the treasurer, [00:27:00] whether the, the name of that function will evolve over time. It's possible, I think, but, but I do think it's, um, you know, the concept that you're bringing out is really emphasizing.
[00:27:14] What we've seen Ryan over the past few years and especially this past year, and that's around the importance of the treasurer.
[00:27:21] Tom: [00:27:21] So, um, given the importance of automation, given the importance of digitization and digital, how more involved is, say it. The it department of the CIO involved in what finance is doing or the kinds of systems that they need to do, the kinds of things you've talked about.
[00:27:40] Niklas: [00:27:40] I think, um, it has to be a very strong partnership between, let's say a CIO organization or an it organization. Um, the finance function. You know what, whereas we've seen in the finance functions, the treasury functions [00:28:00] bring in more of those digital skills. It's not sufficient, right. In order to drive a true digital transformation.
[00:28:09] And we're also seeing on the CIO or the traditional it side, where they're getting more and more involved in actually running the business or enabling. The business. So that partnership, I think, is extremely important as organizations are moving forward
[00:28:30] Tom: [00:28:30] or to talk about, you know, what, what sounds like one of the best career most to make, which is to be a treasurer then, um, what advice would you give for say a first time treasurer?
[00:28:41] I mean, what kind of a, a set of experiences would, would be great for them to have.
[00:28:46] Niklas: [00:28:46] I want us just start somewhere. That's different than just looking at the technical skills, because I do think that most people that are put into an executive role are in a bright they'll be able to pick anything out. So the advice I would give [00:29:00] is really to.
[00:29:01] Start off, uh, start off by, um, defining who you are to be as a treasurer and the hopes that you have for yourself and the organization. And think through the legacy that you'd like to leave. Like we talked about before, there is a real path from fresh words of CFL these days. If that, if that is the ambition of, of, of the, sort of the incoming treasurer, the treasurer of thought through.
[00:29:29] So the legacy. That he or she wants to build and create and leave behind in their focus, um, how they spend their time, how they surround themselves, where stellar talent. Um, really taking the time to build or nurture relationships sort of across the, the executives more broadly in the organization that the treasurer will need to work with.
[00:29:56] And the reason why I say that is that I, I believe you [00:30:00] really need a clear vision and a plan for what you're looking to achieve. That's so that's that's first of all, and that in order to get it down, like you're going to need your trusted lieutenants or your wing man and wing women, right. At the, whatever you may want to refer to your, um, team player as, as well as strong relationships across the executive group and a competent that can help influence the outcome.
[00:30:29] Of the agenda that you have and help sort of drive that in the right direction. I think it really all comes down to how you enable yourself to manage time your own time. That's going to be a very scars commodity as you take on the role of a treasurer, how you're able to. Put the right talent in place.
[00:30:50] Take care of all the talent that you have and then how you're able to work those relationships. So that is what I would want to think. I would, I would advise [00:31:00] sort of a first time treasurer coming in.
[00:31:02] Tom: [00:31:02] That sounds like great managerial advice. Uh, obviously, uh, having spent time working with many people in this, uh, executive transition labs, I'm sure you've yeah, you've got a bit of a playbook there on what works and what doesn't, what's important.
[00:31:16] What's not, or it's not as important. I'm fascinated that you have that, that, that sounds like a hugely valuable capability. Let me ask this question. You talked about internal relationships and how important those are, but you know, where, where does, where does a treasurer or a CFO get information? In other words, where do they get trusted information?
[00:31:36] Where do they learn? Where do they find out about things? Because typically, almost certainly CFOs and the sort of typical profile seem to be somewhat conservative. They're very closed, right? Not necessarily trusting. As it were. I'm curious from your perspective, we've gotten different points of view from different people as we've talked to about this.
[00:31:57] Niklas: [00:31:57] I think the peer network is extremely [00:32:00] important and in both of those roles. And so being able to connect with fellow CFO, if I'm a CFO, doesn't necessarily have to be the same industry, same thing. If you're a treasurer, being able to connect with fresh we're of other, in a similar. As a similar sized organization as its size, it's not just sort of a revenue number, right.
[00:32:25] But similar size complexity, similar type of issues that you're dealing with. We had to have that forum to change ideas and see what others are doing. I do think that. There's some of the professional organizations out there that are a source for information as well. You know, you've got consulting firms like us.
[00:32:48] You've got the banks, but I think the most, the most important, uh, network I think is, is your peers,
[00:32:56] Tom: [00:32:56] where do you learn? Where do you go for trusted [00:33:00] information or to. To learn in a, not, you know, in a, in a safe way.
[00:33:07] Niklas: [00:33:07] I tried to actually learn from our people. So I, I am a big believer in trying to get in very high caliber in a smart talent into our organization, you know, talent that really can compliment each other.
[00:33:24] We all have different experiences. Um, um, And really taking the opportunity to learn from the people, one that, uh, we or I hire into the organization, but also my peers that are focused and in other areas that that is probably my most valuable, the most valuable sort of source for learning and information for me, we tend to be.
[00:33:54] Very intentional. And in terms of how we try to rotate in a leadership [00:34:00] roles and experiences internally within, within our firm. So it's not uncommon that you're only setting in your role for an 18 to 24 months, then you move on and take on a different role. And with, with that type of rotations, you get the opportunity to spend time with a lot of people have.
[00:34:21] Uh, about, uh, uh, experiences or from, from different areas. And that's really, I just like listening to their experiences and their
[00:34:32] Tom: [00:34:32] learnings. That's great. So do you listen to podcasts?
[00:34:35] Niklas: [00:34:35] I do. I do. Whenever I, whenever I have the time something I used to do quite a bit when I was traveling. And I think that, uh, we, we all are, uh, you know, all of us who are pretty used to traveling were probably starting to itch a little bit.
[00:34:51] I've been to it to get back out on the road. Um, but that was actually, um, uh, great in a, for just catching up on things and, and when you're [00:35:00] setting. Waiting for a flight at the airport or an in between boarding and takeoff, you know, sort of a little bit of that time. And I try to maximize that time to listen to podcasts.
[00:35:10] So read up on things. So as you're talking about learning. That was sort of my, that a little bit of precious time. If
[00:35:18] Tom: [00:35:18] you didn't turn on the internet on a flight, you actually were able to, you know, read or less than that. That's a great, that's found time right there. So this has been really great. We do have one more section, but this one will go somewhat fast.
[00:35:31] It's called our quick hits. And so there's, there's some. Maybe a little bit more personal questions. So if you're up for it, we'll get into it. Okay. Sure. Okay. Nicholas, so, um, what would you be doing if you weren't doing this?
[00:35:45] Niklas: [00:35:45] Well, I wouldn't be doing consulting that's for sure. I do enjoy it, but I would actually be designing and building homes.
[00:35:51] Oh wow. So it's quite different, but something I've actually tried. Uh, and I really, really enjoy both of, uh, the building aspect of it and, um, [00:36:00] you know, the, the signing of the interiors and all those types of things. So. Secretly, that's probably my retirement plan. Once I retired from this. Uh, that's what I'll be doing for, for a period of time, actually
[00:36:11] Tom: [00:36:11] doing the designing and building.
[00:36:12] Yup.
[00:36:13] Niklas: [00:36:13] Wow. So working, I've had a chance to do it a couple of times now working with architects, designing the homes, working with the builders. No picking anything from the trend to the appliances and, and going through all of that. And, uh, and also, um, the signing. So it'd be inferior of the house once it's finished.
[00:36:31] So, you know, everything soup to nuts. And then I'm hoping that I can build a little bit of a portfolio around that over there. That's great. And once I do retire from consulting, that's
[00:36:41] Tom: [00:36:41] great. One of my favorite architects, uh, who unfortunately passed away Frederick Schwartz. With somebody that you wanted to take it through to like the pencil, you know, that was, you know, in the tray, he just, he, he saw it all.
[00:36:55] So it was like, well, why stop? Right. So that's cool. What [00:37:00] is, um, what shows might you be streaming now? Do you have time
[00:37:04] Niklas: [00:37:04] for that? Yeah, no, I do have time for that. Uh, so just thinking I, I did, I did stream a lot in the beginning of the pandemic and the thing I went through, a lot of the meth fix content that's out there, but the latest thing, it's actually something I got into, um, uh, with my son just this past week, um, that that's streaming, um, a show called formula one drive to survive.
[00:37:29] Wow. Uh, and, um, I was his choice to start. Uh, but I, I, um, got to know that I could really hook. So it's about the whole formula one industry and, uh, everything from the owners to the, uh, constantly no constructors of the vehicles to the drivers and sunsets. It's pretty interesting. Wow.
[00:37:48] Tom: [00:37:48] How old is your son?
[00:37:49] You seven. Wow. Good, good for him. Um, and that's great that you can do that together. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Okay. So you've obviously been on a lot of zoom [00:38:00] calls. What's the craziest thing you've ever seen on a zoom call?
[00:38:03] Niklas: [00:38:03] I don't think I've seen anything as crazy as what's being posted on social media sometimes.
[00:38:09] Correct. Right. The kids showing up or, you know, things happening in the background of the call, but. I would share that the, probably the funniest thing that, that I had done a zoom call is, um, falling off the bar stool in the kitchen while on a zoom call on video. And, um, I think there were some pretty big noises that came out there.
[00:38:32] Tom: [00:38:32] Right. That's great. So you're not on the Barstool now?
[00:38:35] Niklas: [00:38:35] Nope. Um, um, a regular office chair.
[00:38:39] Tom: [00:38:39] Yeah. That's cool. So you sound an Nicholas, you've had a great career. You have great perspective on others. And, um, so my, my guess is you lead a fairly disciplined life. You talked about the value of time. So the final question is going to be, so how do you start your day?
[00:38:57] What's the first thing you do? The
[00:38:59] Niklas: [00:38:59] first thing [00:39:00] I do. And, but I try to do every morning is actually get a, get a good workout in or something to get, to get the blood flowing through through my body. I must say there was, um, way easier. I did it very consistently when we lived out on the East coast having come out on the West for.
[00:39:21] The past few months, it's not as easy. Uh, but I've tried to make that a priority. You know, I, I work a whole lot better. I'm probably a whole whole, you know, a much more pleasant person to be around. If I get that, even if it's just 20, 30 minutes, I've worked out, uh, in, in the morning. So that is a big, um, focus of mine.
[00:39:38] Then after that, I'm pretty quick, you're moving to the coffee machine, having grown up in Sweden. I'm a, I'm a big coffee. That's great.
[00:39:47] Tom: [00:39:47] Yeah, that sounds exactly like my routine. Coffee must follow soon thereafter. Yeah. Nicholas, Nicholas. It was a pleasure spending time with you. Thank you for the gracious amount of time you've given us, and [00:40:00] we really appreciate you being with us today.
[00:40:01] Thank you.
[00:40:02] Niklas: [00:40:02] Of course. Thank you for having me, Tom. It was quite time flew by pretty fast here it did.
[00:40:09] Tom: [00:40:09] Okay. Thanks. And we hope to talk to you again soon. Yeah. Thank you.