This episode features an interview with Danielle Murcray, CFO at AttackIQ, your expert on real-time, data-driven visibility into the effectiveness of your security program. Danielle has spent more than 20 years in executive-level finance, running companies under industry titans like Palo Alto Networks, McAfee and Cisco. She received her bachelor of science in accounting from Central Washington University and is a Certified Public Accountant. On this episode, Danielle addresses building relationships with CEOs, tackling cybersecurity and fraud, as well as assessing and managing risk as a CFO in a pandemic world.
This episode features an interview with Danielle Murcray, CFO at AttackIQ, your expert on real-time, data-driven visibility into the effectiveness of your security program.
Danielle has spent more than 20 years in executive-level finance, running companies under industry titans like Palo Alto Networks, McAfee and Cisco. She received her bachelor of science in accounting from Central Washington University and is a Certified Public Accountant.
On this episode, Danielle addresses building relationships with CEOs, tackling cybersecurity and fraud, as well as assessing and managing risk as a CFO in a pandemic world.
Quotes
*“Very few people want to go back to the office full time, if, and when the pandemic is over. I think that is something that HR leaders and CFOs really need to understand and consider. For me specifically, I spend a significant amount of my time focused on employee engagement and how to keep our employees feeling connected now that we are fully remote in the US, we must have a continuous communication loop. We must collaborate as a team as often as we can. I will tell you that if this pandemic has taught me anything, it's that companies need to find creative ways to keep employees motivated and that over-communication and collaboration have become extremely important to ensure employees still feel like they are part of a team.”
*“I'm a firm believer that a quality risk management program should be intertwined with organizational strategy, which puts it right up into the CFO's alley. I also believe that the most important thing to remember is that when you're designing a quality risk management program, you can never manage out all risks. And I think you have to accept that at the outset. So instead, you want to use the program to determine which risks are worth taking to achieve your organization's goals and objectives.”
*“Being data-driven means to me that strategic decisions are based on data and interpretation of that data. So, it needs to be timely, accurate, clean and unbiased. Most importantly, it has to be trustworthy data. For me, particularly, it's also about building tools, building abilities within all employees and particularly within the finance team. I've used this word a few times throughout our discussion today, which is really building a culture that acts on data … I really believe that a data-driven culture enables companies to examine and organize their data with the goal of making better informed decisions, which is the point of data at the end.”
*“The pandemic has completely shifted the role of the CFO and has really put the CFO front and center. And to me, that leap for CFOs or future finance leaders really must be leadership abilities and the ability to build relationships. I think we can all agree that the relationship between the CEO and CFO has always been one that's based on trust and collaboration and a shared view of the goals and objectives. If that relationship isn't tight then it's going to spell trouble for the company. That relationship obviously remains important, but in order to be successful, the CFO really has to take advantage of the expanded strategic importance of the role and start building relationships, or continue to build relationships with other leadership within the company. It's more imperative than ever before and partnering with those leaders and focusing on broader strategic opportunities and exerting that influence when you build those relationships will really allow for the CFO to help the company capitalize on opportunities and most importantly create value. That is what will separate a good CFO from a great one.”
Time Stamps
*[1:24] Danielle Murcray's ‘calling story’
*[7:54] AttackIQ helping companies in the market
*[9:06] Cash Crossroads
*[10:43] Impact and challenges of the pandemic
*[15:52] Learnings from the pandemic
*[24:37] The Playbook
*[25:06] Risk management as a CFO
*[30:49] Addressing cybersecurity and fraud
*[35:53] What it means to be data driven
*[41:45] Capital forecasting for 2022
*[43:32] Report from the Future
*[50:26] Quick Hits
Sponsor
The Invisible Vault is powered by the team at Kyriba, the global leader in cloud treasury and finance solutions, empowering CFOs and their teams to transform how they activate liquidity as a dynamic, real-time vehicle for growth and value creation. To learn more visit www.kyriba.com
Links
Connect with Danielle on LinkedIn
Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
Danielle Murcray: Being data-driven means to me that strategic decisions are based on data analysis. And interpretation of that data. So it needs to be timely. It needs to be accurate and clean, needs to be unbiased. And most importantly, it has to be trustworthy data. And for me, particularly, it's also about building tools, building abilities within all employees, really, and particularly within the finance team. And most importantly, and I've used this word a few times throughout our discussion today, which is really building a culture that acts on data. I think that is very important. In general, culture is something that's very important to me, just with my HR and talent acquisition hat on. But having that culture that believes in the data that you present and acts on the data appropriately. And just a little bit further on that, I really believe that a data-driven culture enables companies to examine and organize their data with the goal of making better informed decisions, which, that is the point of data.
Narrator: Hello and welcome to The Invisible Vault.
This episode features an interview with Danielle Murcray, CFO at AttackIQ, a best-in-class security optimization platform. AttackIQ is a leader in one of the hottest industries, as cybersecurity becomes a priority for many companies with concern about ransomware or supply-chain attacks. They built the industry’s first breach and attack simulation platform and they now count four of the Fortune 20 as customers. In July of last year, AttackIQ raised $44M in a Series C fundraise for a total of $79M so far.
Danielle has more than 20 years of executive-level experience in the tech industry, across finance, accounting, HR and operations. Prior to joining AttackIQ, she served as CFO at Evident.io (acquired by Palo Alto Networks) and Skyhigh Networks (acquired by McAfee), and Vice President, Corporate Controller at IronPort Systems (acquired by Cisco).
On this episode, Danielle discusses acting as a strategic change agent, focusing capital to get the most out of AttackIQ’s long-term strategic growth opportunities, and finance as an enabler of growth.
But before we get into it, here’s a brief word from our sponsor…
So please enjoy this interview between your host, Daniel Shaffer, and Danielle Murcray, CFO at AttackIQ.
Daniel Shaffer: Danielle, it's a real pleasure to have you on the invisible vault today. My name is Daniel Shaffer. I'm the Corporate Communications for Kyriba and the Executive Producer of the invisible Vault. Danielle, we're just gonna have fun with this conversation and keep it casual.
But I did want to mention to our audience that you have a long and extensive track record of scaling organizations at a executive level and finance, accounting, and human resources. this kind of breadth of experience at that high level, especially in a fast growth technology industry. I just have to ask where did it all start?
How did you get to where you are today and why did you decide finance was right for you?
Danielle Murcray: So, I mean, I wish I had an exciting, it was my calling story, but unfortunately I do not. You know, what I can tell you is that math has always been a passion of mine. Believe it or not. One of my math teachers back when I was a freshman in high school, suggested accounting as a field that I should explore.
And it is a great career for women. It gives you the opportunity to choose whatever industry you want to work in. And so it just really ended up being a natural fit for me.
Daniel Shaffer: Well, we've heard math as a common core. All of our CFOs and fascinating to have such influence early on. But certainly there's a lot to the story in finance. And what it is that you do on a daily day-to-day basis and helping companies like attack, IQ really achieve their goals. When you think about your role as a strategic partner to the business, Where do you position yourself and what kind of trusted resources do you use to enable your business partners across the organization?
Danielle Murcray: You know, I think you know, where I fit from a strategic partner perspective is that, you know, I just believe that CFOs are in a very unique position just to have the capabilities to strategically drive a company forward. You know, I use kind of my deep knowledge of the company's business model and its financial position to help build these relationships.
I really believe that a cornerstone of my role. To just develop more effective operational strategies, anything from building value in and Manning managing operational risks throughout the organization. So I think that this is best achieved by being data-driven by leveraging tools to identify and really prove that finance can be an enabler of growth.
In addition you know, I really pride myself in developing relationships with all members of the executive team. Team by gaining trust with all employees and investors through open, honest, and clear communication, it helps me manage risk. It helps me manage uncertainty across the organization and at the same time, I think even more so now with the pandemic really I'm seeing more of a strategic changing engine within the organization?
Daniel Shaffer: There's a lot happening right now in the market. There's certainly is an incredible amount of volatility. We're seeing a lot of change just in the geopolitical landscape but also in the regulatory you'd mentioned risk environment continued changes there and requirements for your teams across.
In the finance in particular to manage just curious if we get dig in a little bit, I'm wondering if some previous experience that you've had such a high level visibility with brand names that everyone knows about. Any one of these experiences, do you think prepared you for what you're doing today?
Whether it was, you know, working at Arthur Anderson major Silicon valley office there The acquisition of the evident IO by Palo Alto networks, that you have a really interesting background in some of your accomplishments and companies that you've worked for. Do you think any of that has prepared you for what you're facing today?
Danielle Murcray: I mean 100%. I go back to my first job out of college was with Arthur Anderson and the Silicon valley office. As you mentioned. I was really fortunate to have joined at a time when many tech companies were going public. So my primary focus was auditing those companies and I was able to get exposure to all kinds of different technology.
But for me specifically, I fell in love with security and. Back in 2005 when I joined IronPort and I would say iron port was probably the pivotal moment from a career perspective. In case you don't know, iron port was the leading provider of email and web security. And I just felt like I was making a difference in terms of working for a company that was trying to stop bad actors back in the early days of security.
And so that was my first startup and it was acquired by Cisco systems in 2008. And since then you know, I have essentially stayed insecurity specialized in security. And as you mentioned have been at some very successful companies, two of which were acquired by Palo Alto networks and one that was acquired by McAfee.
So I really think that every company I've worked at has helped me become who I am today as a CFO and what I personally love about security. And while I w Y I will never leave the industry. And also what I like about the role of the CFO is that neither of them are going away ever. And from my perspective, job
Daniel Shaffer: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. As we see and I work closely with our security teams and product level security. We are constantly seeing new ways to improve, innovate and help our clients protect their software and data and financial resources. From bad actors, I absolutely seen a huge impact.
And S maybe you even have some data points that you'd like to share, but we're seeing reports of increases upwards of, you know, 70 to 500% in cyber attacks. Is that a data point that you can substantiate?
Danielle Murcray: I mean, absolutely. I mean, every day just go on LinkedIn just go on you know, any major new site there's there seems to be a breach every single day of something, something always comes out. So I completely agree with you from that
Daniel Shaffer: well, tell us a little bit about attack IQ. You've hinted at it. And some of the experiences that you had at IronPort, which was acquired by Cisco helped you prepare for what you're doing and getting really had you're your positioning, maybe your frame of mind in a way that was excited.
Helping companies protect themselves against bad actors. What does IQ, what does attack IQ do? How does it help companies in the market?
Danielle Murcray: Sure.
Sorry. I didn't know what happened with my audio. My video there. So sorry about that. So, you know, as a tech IQ is in is in the industry, it will, excuse me, let me start over attack IQ built the industry's first breach and attack simulation platform. So it's for continuous security control validation.
And using automated insights, cyber security teams can confidently verify that their defenses are working. We're aligned to the MITRE attack framework. So that you know, customers can protect their reputation and assets. We also deliver the attackers view of breach risk needed for enterprises to verify the efficacy of the significant security and.
That's what we do in a nutshell
Daniel Shaffer: that's such a needed resource today. And companies that aren't leveraging attack IQ should take notice. There's a huge opportunity to protect the perimeter from bad actors. This next section, we call cash crossroads. And during this segment, What we'd like to talk about here is just kind of your perspective on how things have changed.
Some of the challenges that maybe you have faced and how did you go about enabling your teams and the company to overcome those challenges? So, Danielle, this is cache crossroads. First question is as a CFO, what have you seen change since the onset of the pen?
Danielle Murcray: That's a great question. And it's something I've been living and breathing for the last almost two years, but in the beginning of the pandemic, no one had any idea how long it was going to last and what the buying behaviors of customers would be. So for me, I immediately shifted from my focus to liquidity financial stabilization.
Driving operational efficiencies just to ensure the company remained on sound, financial fitting. This really helped reduce the fear and uncertainty that the temp pandemic brought you know both personally and professionally to our employees and investors that was actually a, quite, quite a big change.
Daniel Shaffer: know there was a lot of uncertainty there still is today. W maybe we can talk a little bit about that. How did it impact liquidity? What was your point of view and position on liquidity risk? What was really your biggest challenge?
Danielle Murcray: So it's interesting that you asked that question. I mean, I can tell you that once COVID hit. I must have modeled 30 different scenarios. It's the first time in my entire tired, long career as a CFO that such uncertainty had me create all of those scenarios, kind of looking at, you know, what, if this happens, what if that happens?
How long will all our cash last? So at the beginning of the pandemic, that was a huge challenge. For me with the uncertainty, but I will tell you that we're very lucky at attack IQ, that we raised $44 million in our series C fundraise during the pandemic, which I'm very proud of by the way. And we still have the majority of that cash in the bank.
Thank you. But I do feel in terms of your question on challenge on the biggest liquidity challenge, I mean, I do feel a tremendous responsibility in being the steward of that cash and really helping the company determine where to. Where to focus that capital to get the most out of our long-term strategic growth opportunities for attack IQ.
And in currently that's really my biggest liquidity challenge at the
Daniel Shaffer: great. Let me do one thing here, Meredith I'm hearing a little bit of. Pause in the audio. And I'm just wondering if we want to go off camera, which is totally fine. If you're not hearing that Meredith, then maybe we can continue as we are with camera on what are your thoughts?
Yeah. Okay.
Yep.
I think that was me. And I do apologize. I've turned that off. Thank you.
Okay. Great. Thanks.
Okay. All right, Danielle. So, yeah, easy as you can see, if you want to take a pause anytime we can just re edit that out and start again. But what I thought was really interesting, Danielle, about your comment throughout this pandemic or somewhere in the middle of it, wherever that might be. I don't know if we're at the end yet.
You were able to raise a, you said 44 million and new capital, despite the challenges everyone had been facing, what was your key to success there?
Danielle Murcray: I think our ketos T. Falls into just a few categories. I think the first one is we are in an emerging technology space, which is very popular and very needed from, you know, regardless of the type of company that you are. And so I think being in a hot space is just one of the fundamental things that investors are looking for.
We're in a growing space. There's a lot of Tam out there for companies to go after. And I think we are very well positioned to go out and do that. So I think the strength of our customers was another thing that I will tell you amazed me when I first joined the company over two years ago.
Was just the depth and breadth of the customers and the different industries that we had. And I think that in itself is super impressive for the size company that we are. And I think that investors were very interested in continuing to capitalize on that and invest in, in the company. And I think the third team third reason that that we got the investment was based on the quality of our management.
I think we have quite a few people who have been there and done that. And I think a lot of investors are like to invest in, in teams that have had success. And I think you know, our team is a a true testimony to that.
Daniel Shaffer: well again, Craig, congratulations. That's a great round and it will certainly have another visit in the near future. I would imagine. Continue as companies like yours grow at exponential levels around the world. The demand for cybersecurity solutions that really do make a difference can only go up.
So again, hats off and congrats. I'm wondering if there's any. Processes that throughout the pandemic changed working from home or any ways that you go about meeting keeping people happy. What are your thoughts on that? Anything changed and that you might retain post pandemic?
Danielle Murcray: I am so glad that you asked this question. So, and from my perspective, I think the pandemic has forever changed the working environ. And for me as the CFO, I must continue to embrace the changes that the pandemic has been the catalyst of. And for my role in particular, at attack IQ, since I also run HR, a large shift was managing talent with a transition from an in-person office culture to a work from home culture.
I think what you will actually find is that you know, for us at attack IQ, I should say we've gone 100% remote in the. And all of the surveys I've seen recently, including ones that we have done internally is that, that very few people want to go back to the office full time, if, and when the pandemic is.
And I think that is something that, you know, li HR leaders CFOs really need to understand and consider. And so for me specifically, I spend a significant amount of my time focused on employee engagement and how to keep our employees feeling connected now that we are fully remote in the U S we must have a continuous communication loop.
We must collaborate as a team as often as we can. And I will tell you that if this Pentec pandemic?
has taught me anything, it's that companies need to find creative ways to keep employees motivated and that over-communication and collaboration have become extremely important to ensure employees still feel like they are part of a team.
When they can't all be together. And I actually think that is a very positive thing to come out of. The pandemic is the focus on people, the focus on employees and really just trying to keep that collaboration and engagement together is very difficult when you remote. But I think it can be done.
Like I said, through communication and collaboration.
Daniel Shaffer: Absolutely. It's been fun having. Zoom meetings and playing games on on Fridays, just to close out the week with your colleagues and reconnect on a personal level, even though you can't do it in person. So I'm sure you've found some creative ways to do that. I want to tee up this question again for you.
Because you shared with me something that I think our listeners would love to hear more about, especially our CFO, colleagues and peers. When you think about that big liquidity challenge that you faced, and you said 30 different scenario models to, in order to do what was, what were you doing?
What was the company concerned about? What was the primary concern with maybe bringing liquidity into the company or days payable, outstanding for invoices. Can you tell me a little bit more, what about that liquidity challenge? Were you considering in those scenarios?
Danielle Murcray: So the biggest thing was raising capital. So at the time we, that, so that's, if we back up to would've been March. 2020 when when the first time that this really came up and we were shut down we had not raised money. We raised money in 2021. And so what I was focused on in terms of running those scenarios was trying to figure out.
When things were, if ever going to get back to normal and how the pandemic would actually change customer buying behavior, if at all. And so my scenario planning was all about how long is our cash going to last us and how confident are we that will, we are going to be able to raise our next funding, given all of the uncertainty that was, you know, going on throughout 2020.
So that, that was my primary. That was my primary focus and just. Scenarios on, well, what if our projected bookings are going to be 10% less or 20% less, or doomsday, 50% less, those are the different models. And how would that impact our hiring? How would that impact? Things like you talked about you know, cash into the company from an AR perspective, cash out from the company from an AP perspective and just really looking at all of those levers and which ones we could actually move and which ones we couldn't.
Again, it's just not that we don't do those things as CFOs on a regular basis, but just the quantity of different scenarios was something that was unprecedented for.
Daniel Shaffer: I imagine that data helped and resources, technology resources. Cole and bring those data points together. We're a paramount. Can you tell me what was the frequency that, and who are you reporting this data to? I mean, you did this scenario modeling. Was this for your team? Did you push this up to the CEO?
Were you having board meetings about where you were going next? Tell us a little bit about.
Danielle Murcray: Actually it was all of the above. I mean, I originally did the modeling work with it. I worked very closely, have a really great relationship with our CEO. Brent Galloway. I've actually known him for a little over 20 years, which is also very helpful. But really working in partnering with him to determine what the best scenarios were.
And we have a very open and collaborative and Culture at our company. In fact, one of our core values is to operate with transparency. And so we immediately got together with the entire executive team and were very honest to say, Hey, here's some of the changes that we're looking at here are the different scenarios.
And of those 30, there were three That I presented sort of best case, most likely case and worst case. So I picked the CEO C E O, and I decided on the three cases to present to the executive team. Got alignment around that. And then yes, we had many meetings with the board to discuss the different scenarios.
And and then it's something that we discussed in our quarterly board meetings thereafter in terms of how we were doing to against those scenarios. And the good news is that we came out a lot better than anyone had expected. Due to that uncertainty. So we were very happy to see that. And then obviously our investors really believe in us in terms of us being able to raise $44 million earlier this year.
Daniel Shaffer: That scenario modeling, really identifying what if. let me repeat that question. We can edit that out. The scenario modeling is becoming one of the most important CFO tools that we've heard in this invisible vault podcast, but also I've heard through our network of friends in the finance space.
Do you feel like the scenario modeling that you produced throughout the pandemic at the rapid pace that you produced it? With the frequency of sharing it up through the CFO and board will be a practice that you retain going through.
Danielle Murcray: I, you know, I do think it, I do think it will be I still do believe that there, there is uncertainty and why we are seeing you know, customers buying and frankly, all of the breaches and other things that come up only bolster the need for a product like. I don't see the that boards or even the executive teams are gonna want less data at this point.
I think once you have it, you're going to want to continue to have it and have those discussions and really be able to look at the business from a, you know, worst case, best case and most likely case. I think those kind of three models that I talked about we'll continue postpartum.
Daniel Shaffer: That's very consistent with what we're hearing as well. The appetite for data is not going away. The feeding, the beast. This seems like the beast only gets more hungry. We may edit that out, but we may edit the beast out, but but you're absolutely right. You know, we live in a.
Gratification environment and it doesn't, and that translates across the board. And especially when you're dealing with somebody the company that you're growing and protecting you need to have constant visibility and access to that data. Well, that is a really helpful. Exciting segment that we just shared on cash crossroads.
This next section is called the playbook. And Danielle, what we talk about in this section is really kind of a deep dive into your personal experience, not just at attack IQ, but really across the board in the evolution of your understanding of risk and how you address it as a CFO. So let's talk about that.
risk management mean to you? Danielle?
Danielle Murcray: So, again, this is another great question, because believe it or not, I still remember my Arthur Anderson days with the introduction of servings Oxley, which I know I'm dating myself right now and I should never do. But that really completely changed the role of an auditor. And so even back. We switched our focus to enterprise risk management audits versus traditional audits.
So suffice it to say risk management has been a part of my career from the early days and at attack IQ and at other companies as well. So for me personally, I focus on really examining the relationship between. And the downstream impact they could have on a company's strategic goals. I'm a firm believer that a quality risk management program should be intertwined with organizational strategy which puts it right up into the CFO's alley.
And I also believe that most important thing to remember. And I think this. Sort of very hard to wrap your head around from us from a CFO's perspective, is that when you're designing a quality risk management program you can never manage out all risks. And I think you have to accept that at the outset.
And so instead you want to use the program to determine which risks are worth taking to achieve your organization's goals and objectives.
Daniel Shaffer: is a wide open topic. And when you look at where the CFO sits in terms of managing liquidity across the enterprise how to prevent unnecessary leakage falls into that category of risk management. us maybe a few bullet points. What are those key areas of risks that you see today?
Let me rephrase that question. Sorry. W what are the like three or four areas within risk management that you are prioritizing today?
Danielle Murcray: Yeah. So I think from a risk management perspective, you know, number one is what you w you know, sort of what you refer to as that, that protecting the company's assets. Data leakage, et cetera. So that is definitely one area that we are constantly focused on. And through education of our employees is just another you know, just to make sure that doesn't really happen.
I think the other thing from a risk management perspective is the, just the change in the regulatory environment is something that we really have to be pay attention to. So you think of things like GDPR. And think of even all of the California privacy laws et cetera. So really looking at and focusing on the regulatory changes is something that I think we've all had to do from a CFO's perspective, but just particularly with data privacy and just the emphasis that has been put on that worldwide, that is an area that we've.
I have been focusing you know, quite a bit of our time on and the other side of risk management, which is more of a people focused. So this might not be something that. You know, all people would sort of put in that risk management profile, but I personally would. And I think it's because I sort of where that HR and talent acquisition hat as well is I think one of the biggest risks to the company.
Is attracting and retaining good people. And I think that is a big challenge. It's a big risk for companies and may not fall into a typical risk management program, but it is something that we focus on you know, significantly. And as I mentioned from a you know, pandemic perspective, it has become even more important with how competitive the market is.
Yeah that we do the best job that we can. We would not be who we are as a company, without the people that we have and the people that we need to attract. And so we spend quite a bit of time in terms of trying to figure out how to keep people engaged, keep people happy at attack IQ so that we don't lose. again, I know that's kind of an odd answer to put under a risk management program, but I really do believe that is you know, a competitive advantage for us at attack IQ Q because we spend so much time
Daniel Shaffer: absolutely. There's this is maybe one of the new normals coming out of the pandemic. More people today were reading in the, as much as we're reading about cyber crime and fraud. We're reading about people leaving the workplace and having. A new opportunity that they're creating on the room as an opportunity entrepreneur, or just a, there's a lot of mobility right now as you're mentioning and keeping top, top talent is a number one priority.
Speaking of cybersecurity and fraud, you know, that seems to be one of those threats that people talk about as well. Certainly there's a low chance these days of internal fraud, but we're seeing an increased chance of maybe payments fraud or bad actors trying to have, you know, BEC scams you hear about phishing and those kinds of cyber attacks.
Yeah. How do you address that? And do you consider that one of the primary risks that you're facing at attack IQ?
Danielle Murcray: Oh 100%. So, the one mantra that I can say is education. I cannot stress this enough. So our mantra at attack IQ?
is that. So meaning every employee or part of the security team at our company. In fact, we have an entire slide on this concept in our new hire orientation that, and we also put every employee through yearly fraud and security training.
I actually did mine last night with the two modules that were assigned to me. But you would be surprised about how many intelligent people still fall for phishing. I see that in the context of you know, personal information, either trying to steal someone's identity to, we get bombarded every single day with threat actors coming in and pretending to be our employees and wanting to change their bank account information as one example.
So what we have done specifically at a tech IQ to combat. These threats is so one of the things we've done is create a fishing alias. And so that's where you can send emails to our it department. And they can be verified that they're legit or not legit before you click on anything. And not only does that obviously help protect the company, but it also helps our it team better protect the company.
Okay. Future threats because they're learning how these threat actors try to initiate their attacks. We've also created some internal processes within our HR and finance teams to double and triple check employee requests to change personal information within our systems. If we have vendors that are trying to change their bank account information, we always follow up with.
With a physical phone call. I know that sounds crazy these days, but we actually use the phone still and reach out to people before we make any of those changes. Just again, to try to do stay vigilant, try to do whatever we can to stop fraud. The social engineering attacks are honestly a number one concern of mine because they can be very sophisticated.
They can look very real. And I think in general, a lot of people are people pleasers and so they want to help. And the threat actors are really taking advantage of that.
Daniel Shaffer: Yeah. One of the guests that I spoke with early in the season of the invisible vault talked about that social engineering. Always comes with a sense of urgency. So having the right policies and processes in place to diffuse that sense of urgency and then validate with more than one source or resource is extremely helpful as a best practice as another best practice.
I think you just brought up if others aren't doing it is the alien. Email for it to validate account whether it's a new account or a person in particular, what a brilliant approach. Excellent. I think that our listeners will really appreciate that. Speaking of fraud, just lastly, I'm just curious if you have any technology.
I know you said it was kind of manual and an old school to reach out and call. Are you able to leverage technology to validate bank accounts in automated way?
Danielle Murcray: So one of the tools that, that we particularly use uses bill.com. And so that, that actually you know, is a tool that does have some fraud prevention. Modules, I guess I would say you know, within it to make sure that when information is is changed from a vendor perspective that it can be automatically validated, but this may be the old school person in me.
I still like to have that second level of validation because I don't think you could have. Be too careful and we will continue to have that second level as long as you know, it, it makes sense you know, for us and for the size company that we are. But it, you know, it's hard to get over that hump of really relying on technology so much.
I still believe that personal touch and that manual verification is not a bad process.
Daniel Shaffer: Absolutely. The more validation, the better last section here of Earl question within the playbook. And you already hinted at this Danielle about the importance of data. Data's not going away in our app. For a data, especially at the board level for decision-making isn't going away. So apologies for leading the witness, but what does date what does being, sorry?
What does being data-driven mean?
Danielle Murcray: So now you're speaking my language. Day-to-day to data. So being data-driven means to me that strategic decisions are based on data and. And interpretation of that data. So it needs to be timely. It needs to be accurate and clean needs to be unbiased. And most importantly it has to be trustworthy data.
And for me, particularly, it's also about building tools building abilities with. Within all employees really, and particularly within the finance team. And most importantly, and I've used this word a few times throughout our discussion today, which is really building a culture that acts on data.
I think that is very important. In general culture is something that's very important to me, just with my HR and talent acquisition happens. But having that culture, that, that believes in data, the data that that you present in axon, the data approach appropriately, and just a little bit further on that.
I really believe that a data-driven culture enables companies to examine and organize their data with the goal of making better informed decisions, which that is the point of data at the end
Daniel Shaffer: Well, I think that is the sound bite of our interview so far. Well, we might lead into the podcast with that last let's timestamp that Danielle you're a rock star. I love that you are passionate about data. And I think what you just shared about data analysis, clean and unbiased data, helping you make decisions.
The what if scenario modeling that you mentioned earlier? Can you tell me what. Types of data, maybe a little bit in the weeds would be fine. That was a great high-level kind of mission statement on the value of data. Where w when you say you want to be data-driven, are you, what are you looking at? FP and a treasury procurement.
What are those areas where you're pulling data in about payments to help you make decisions about your next.
Danielle Murcray: Yeah, so we, we use all different kinds of systems to pull data together. So as I mentioned, we use bill.com from a vendor management perspective. We use net suite from an ERP perspective. We use salesforce.com from a CRM perspective. You know, we use Gainsight from a customer retention perspective.
So I am using all of those systems to pull data into my essentially budgeting model and my forecasting model so that we can, again, just make more timely and accurate decisions based on, you know, based on that data. And I use it for reveling revenue modeling purposes is a big thing. I use it for.
Quota modeling purposes. So all of that data drives my entire model and that model drives all of the discussions that we have at an executive level and a board level in terms of how we want to spend our capital. And without that information, we would be making decisions in the dark. And I think that the key here, again, about being data-driven and have a culture and having a culture around using that data.
It helps us make better informed decisions. And we're not making decisions in the dark. I just don't think that any company is in a position these days to be guessing and really focusing on the data that the tremendous amount of data. I mean, I think about over my career and the things that we used to have to do from a modeling and forecasting and FP, and a perspective to where we are today.
It's like it's a different universe. And I feel very fortunate to be a CFO at this point in time with having access to all these tools and systems that frankly make my job easier and make me more effective at the executive level. And at the board level
Daniel Shaffer: Excellent. We could spend a lot more time on that, especially as we're facing a 2022 fed increase in interest rates and how that modeling is going to impact the way you hire and your budgeting and forecasting for 2022. When you start scenario modeling with a 1% shift or a 2% shift, how has that. Be a knock-on effect to the capital.
You need to have ready for new hires or bonuses and promotions. Right.
Danielle Murcray: Absolutely. And that's very tiny cause we literally just kicked off our FYI. We're a fiscal year in our fiscal 2023 planning process. And I'm presenting to the exec team on on Monday, the roll-up of all of their requests. So very timely. My dogs aren't here. So that is
Daniel Shaffer: I don't have a dog either, so, but it did go away.
So you want to just kind of talk a little bit about the knock on effect of a 1% increase as we're looking into 2022 of w with the projected fed increasing interest rates. How do you think about that from a budget and forecast perspective? And what kind of scenario modeling are you thinking for your company to prepare for having the capital ready at hand to adjust to those changes in interests?
Danielle Murcray: Yeah, I think, you know, for us, for the type of company we are in our sort of capital position that changing in interest rates is a little less impactful for us. But I actually think the question overall in terms of what FYI or what are so we're at fiscal year end, so we just kicked off our budgeting process for FYI.
Which for us as February one next year through January 31st, 2023. And you know, we're just really focused on what we you know, we think the spending trend of customers are going to be, and what type of hiring that we need to do, not only from a sales organization perspective, but also an engineering perspective to you know, continue to innovate to gain a customer attraction and market trends.
You know, as well. And so, you know, maybe if he, if I get invited back to a future, a podcast, I can tell you a little bit about what that process has been like. As I have my first role at meeting with the executives on Monday to go over the different requests that they've had. So I don't mean to, I don't mean to invite myself but if I do, I would love to talk about that.
Daniel Shaffer: We'd love to have you back. There's a lot of conversation to have there. Learning for the guests as well. The idea of the scenario modeling that you talked about earlier, I'm sure the cash forecast in terms of where you predict you, the confidence level that you have will be a big part of how you bring that information to the board.
Danielle Murcray: absolutely cash is king. As we like to say in the
Daniel Shaffer: We're just kind of rounding out here with the last section called report from the future. And in this section, Danielle, we're really looking at. Crystal ball. We want to know what your predictions are, what you think is really essential for the role of finance and CFOs to be successful. So let's talk about the report from the future.
What is your vision for the role of finance to drive growth in the next five years? Not just at that tech IQ, but for any company.
Danielle Murcray: Yep. So I, you know, I've been a CFO for a long time now. And anyone who knows me will tell you, I've never been a kind of like behind the scenes CFO. It's never, it's not in my personality or maybe you can already tell them that. The 45 minutes that we've already had together. But I honestly believe that the pandemic has completely shifted the role of the CFO, as I mentioned before and has really put the CFO front and center.
And so to me that, you know, sort of leap CFOs or, you know, sort of future finance leaders really must be. Leadership capability abilities and the ability to build relationships. So I think we can all agree that the relationship between the CEO and CFO has always been you know, one that's based on trust and collaboration and a shared view of the goals and objectives.
And if that relationship isn't tight then it's going to spell trouble for the company. I actually believe that relationship obviously remains important, but in order to be successful, the CFO really has to. To take advantage of the expanded strategic importance of the role and start building relationships, or continue to build relationships with other leadership within the company.
It's more imperative than ever before and partnering with those leaders and focusing on broader strategic opportunities and exerting that influence when you build those relationships. Will really allow for the CFO to help the company capitalize on opportunities and the most important thing I think, to create value.
And that will separate a good CFO from a great one. A couple of other areas. I think that in order to be successful, I think we have to embrace the changes. You know, we talk a lot at this company about embrace the chaos. Like that's a term that we use here at attack. And not to say that everything is chaos.
But again, it's really about embracing the change. And so whether it be changes in technology or changes in data analytics or even artificial intelligence really that we just, as a CFO, have to embrace all of these changes, which I think will help us. Growth objectives improve our technology capabilities and just make progress on financial goals and objectives of the company.
And then the last thing that I will mention and is something that I sort of touched on and in building the relationships is that you know, really shift from that accounting sort of behind the scenes role to a role of value CRE. And, you know what I mean by that is, you know, we're still in the pandemic, but I think as we continue to move sort of beyond the uncertainty of the pandemic there will be a renewed focus on driving growth.
And I think that the mentality of the CFO has to be, I need to be front and center of this. I can't really be looking at in the rear view mirror, which I would sort of describe how it used to be. And really as a CFO, I need to spend more time looking forward and looking at.
Daniel Shaffer: oh, that's great to hear. And again, we're hearing these themes throughout I know. And some of the read, the reading that I've done on the website of the association for financial professionals. They talk about a lot of soft skills being front and center for CFOs and financial leaders. As you're saying to tell the story to build the relationships in order to create trust and really help deals and maybe a vision for the future move from.
One of the other areas that I'm curious about. Danielle, you talked about value creation. Do you feel like not necessarily looking for names or brands here, but just more of categories, but do you feel like there are emerging technologies like AI that you mentioned that most will make a significant impact for finance teams?
Danielle Murcray: you know, that's a really Great. question. And I think it goes back to sort of our discussion around being data-driven. So I think there's kind of three. Sort of broad technologies that come to mind and I think CFOs need to sort of get their their arms around the first one is just AI.
And so I really think, you know, AI should be welcomed by CFOs. I think it's a little scary as well, cause you're like, wow, am I you know, am I going to replace myself by embracing this. I don't think AI will ever you know, replace humans in totality. But I think that a CFO should really welcome this.
It really offers the ability to deliver improved business outcomes by freeing them up their teams up from time to time. Consuming manual tasks. So when, whenever I can use AI to make my you make my job easier, I'm going to go ahead and do that. The second area is around automation, which does somewhat you know, dovetail with artificial intelligence, but automation just allows for faster and more efficient handling of data.
And then the third area is really around data. So. For me, I think that data science really helps a CFO helps myself get a better understanding of just the volume of data, which we talked a little bit about before. Just all of the systems that we get data from and really using that data across all the businesses.
Can really be help us make and predict outcomes for the business. It can provide unique insights into the state of the company and also help us identify areas of concern as well as areas for potential growth. So those are the three, three technologies I would recommend focusing on.
Daniel Shaffer: Great advice. Thank you. Last section of the invisible vault podcast, as we have enjoyed such a wonderful time with you today, Danielle talking about your career and what you find most important for the future of finance and some of the areas where you've seen challenges, but also opportunities for CFOs, not only at your company, but in your experience overall.
So here are the quick. And you already mentioned an answer, will artificial intelligence replace people. And you said, no. Why do you think people will always be required to augment AI?
Danielle Murcray: So, I mean, I think we can all agree that AI based machines, they might be faster. They might be more accurate. They might be more consistently rushed. But they aren't intuitive. They aren't emotional. They're not culturally sensitive. And those are the abilities that humans possess and frankly make us effective.
And so, while I agree that AI abilities. You know, can't be responsive to the data available. Humans have the ability to imagine anticipate, feel judge and judge changing situations. AI?
can't do that. And so, because these abilities are unique to human. Don't and don't require a steady flow of data like AI does.
I just don't really see the AI sort of taking over. And at the end of the day, I believe AI should actually augment human intelligence, not replace it. that's my
Daniel Shaffer: great. We heard something similar from Lori Krebs, a CFO at red hat who really said empathy is a key component of driving and leader and leading teams. And what I'm hearing you say is that there's a human component about decisioning that has to come into place. There's not just the bottom line.
At the end of the day, that's going to make the right decision or the right outcome. Come to play.
Danielle Murcray: So if I could just add a comment on that. So I talked a little bit about some of our core values. So one of the, one of the six values that our company is do the right thing. And so what that means is what do you do when no one else is looking that's sort of the concept of it, but it also has a concept of, you know, honesty and integrity.
But the most important thing too, is that it has this concept of empathy. And so I, 100% agree with that. In, in, in both personally and professionally, but also in, in relation to this question just around AI, I just don't ever that empathy component is so important. It's important to me personally and professionally, and it's very important to our company or the company attack IQ.
So I love to hear other finance leaders.
Daniel Shaffer: Well, you've just joined the club. So, you're you mentioned a long and illustrious career that you've had as a CFO. And then w tell me, are you looking at, and have you let me rephrase. With the long and illustrious career you've had as a CFO and working with some phenomenal technology companies.
Do you feel that your peers, whether they're CFOs or in the finance are competitors, or do you feel like they are collaborators?
Danielle Murcray: I see them as a hundred percent. I mean, I've learned a tremendous amount by joining several women in technology groups that are really tailored and focused toward female CFOs. I've joined a bunch of CFO groups on LinkedIn and you know, my personal favorite and I hope we do get back to this is also attending different CFO events put on by companies that I view as leaders in the finance industry.
As well as the different VC firms that I've worked with in the past these groups and events have helped me become a better CFO by learning from my peers. And the analogy I'd like to use in here is why you. So I would prefer to use a tried and trued method where other CFOs have navigated all the pitfalls and I just get to reap the benefits of what they had to go through.
So, I, I actually don't feel like I'm competing with other CFOs. I really do view other CFOs as peers of mine. And I prefer to learn from them versus seeing them as I see them as friend, not foe, I guess is
Daniel Shaffer: No, it makes a lot of sense. And I, you know, to be honest, one of the principles or. The vision for the invisible vault was to create a space where we could. Have these wonderful and in-depth conversations with CFOs like yourself to create a common body of knowledge about decisions that were made in the moment that might not be accessible or you know, put together in a white paper or a long form case study.
But that could be just heard and listened to in a podcast format that we're really approachable. So I appreciate all the insight you've provided and I'm sure that our list. And your peers will be appreciative as well. Last question for you. Anything you're listening to right now that really inspires you podcasts, music soundtracks, w what's in your ears.
Danielle Murcray: well, that is a very interesting interesting question. So, what will, what I will tell you is I in the last year I moved to Montana. In fact, I just celebrated my year anniversary of being a Montana. I was actually native California. And so I will have to say country music is definitely coming back into my to my playlist that, that hasn't been on it and in quite a long time.
So definitely you know, embracing you know, my, my new surroundings. Yeah. As much as possible. And you know, I think a better question for me is probably what TV shows am I interested in then? You know, maybe podcasts, I need time. I need time to decompress which I don't know how well that's going to go over with with people listening to that podcast.
But that might be a more appropriate question for
Daniel Shaffer: well, you just served it up. When T Hutch, what Netflix shows are you bending right now?
Danielle Murcray: I think I may have completed Netflix and the pandemic. I'm not joking. I think it may have happened. So actually in all honesty the, one of the shows that I'm watching right now on Netflix is Narcos it's it's. I, it helps me brush up on my Spanish. Which is, you know, which is always good but I will admit, I do have to have the subtitles on I'm not that fluent.
But actually Narcos is definitely on my playlist right now. And I've watched all of them. So I'm in definitely a, into the new season right now, and highly recommend all of the seasons, by the way. It actually encouraged me to learn more about Pablo. I actually went out and got a couple books on him when I, after watching the first one.
So I so believe it or not watching Netflix shows can encourage you to become more intelligent and read that's my PSA for
Daniel Shaffer: I love it, Danielle. It has been an absolute pleasure. We would more than welcome you back in a future segment. For now. Enjoy the big sky in Montana and happy holidays.
Danielle Murcray: Thank you. Thank you. Same to you. Thank you very much.
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